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15 year old burglar killed

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Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 15:38:00 - [1] I see the arguments have finally turned stupid. What if he was confused? What if he was drunk? What if he was a wheelchair bound autistic child being smuggled into the country? Some of the rest of you seem to be content with losing your 32" plasma flatscreen tv that you worked hard for and some of you seem content with being injured/maimed/killed/**d by some one in your home who isn't supposed to be there. Maybe I should become a burglar since we have so many who are so willing to roll over and let it happen. As for me though, I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not** stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 15:51:00 - [2] Originally by: Arvald 0_o.............damn id like to live right next to your house, who needs a security system when you have a one man army living next door (and come on ak47? ill take an m16 over an ak any day) Originally by: Yuri Orlov Of all the weapons in the vast soviet arsenal, nothing was more profitable than Avtomat Kalashnikova model of 1947. More commonly known as the AK-47, or Kalashnikov. It's the world's most popular assault rifle. A weapon all fighters love. An elegantly simple 9 pound amalgamation of forged steel and plywood. It doesn't break, jam, or overheat. It'll shoot whether it's covered in mud or filled with sand. It's so easy, even a child can use it; and they do. The Soviets put the gun on a coin. Mozambique put it on their flag. Since the end of the Cold War, the Kalashnikov has become the Russian people's greatest export. After that comes vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists. One thing is for sure, no one was lining up to buy their cars.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 16:16:00 - [3] Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Micheal Dietrich I've got a personal arsenal of around a dozen guns and if the locks on my doors don't deter them, if a barking dog doesn't deter them, then they will meet the business end of a AK-47 and I will not stop to ask them a questionnare about their state of mind or their use of force. Criminals will not think twice about the crime. This works for you, but what is the opportunity cost of accidental and wrongful deaths to families and society as a whole? There's nothing wrong with defending your property, but the problem is that while there is a large range of how threatening someone is to your life and property, there are only a few types of means to defend yourself. No one wants to under react to a threat (because if you do, you will get beaten/robbed/**d/killed), so you will over react by default as a precaution, which leads to someone getting shot 3 times in the head for attempted breaking and entering. What if there was a weapon that had all the same advantages of a gun but would simply knock someone out for a couple of hours instead of kill them? This is the kind of weapon we need to defend our homes with. Again with the 'what if's'. I don't deal with what if's if someone is breaking into my house. I'll repeat, if the locks don't deter them, if the barking dog doesn't deter them, then they WILL** meet the business end of a AK-47. I live by a simple rule in life: You can do anything you want to but YOU have to pay for the consequences. If you want to rob a house, that's great, just keep in mind it may be your last mistake.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 16:22:00 - [4] Originally by: Slanty McGarglefist Might I recommend the AK-74 with the GP25 underbarrel grenade launcher? Would need a class 3 license for that. No sir, I've got 4 30 round clips, 2 of them being combined. If I can't hit someone at 10-15ft in 60 shots then I deserve whats coming to me.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 17:25:00 - [5] Originally by: Rawrior pix of ak or stfu plox Awaits comments about pants. Originally by: Rawrior someone has been playing too much bf2... and, afaik and unmodified ak-47 straight from the ruskie factory that turned it out, is prohibited.. period.. no license can allow you to own a fully automatic firearm.. or if your in like mexico its a different story Quote: What does "C & R" mean? C & R stands for Curio and Relic, which is a classification of articles and firearms as specified by BATF. Some states (like MI) require that machine gun owners also be federal C&R License holders, but anyone can buy a C&R gun. Also, if you have a C&R license and purchase a C&R gun it may be shipped directly to you once the transfer is approved, rather than to a Class 3 Dealer in your state before tranfer to you. You return the completed Form 4's to the in-state dealer, along with (2) passport size photos, (2) fingerprint cards, (1) citizenship authorization, and a transfer tax check made payable to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for the one time per item transfer tax. A $200.00 transfer tax applies to Short BBL Shotguns, Short BBL Rifles, Machine Guns and Suppressors; a $5.00 transfer tax applies to items classified as Any Other Weapons - "AOW". As you can see, there is a license that allows you to own autmatic rifles (Mine however is semi). However there is still a list of munitions that are banned. Like you may not buy a 1963 made yugoslavian AK-47 but you can buy a 84 China made AK-47 (just an example). The same applies to ammo clips, bayonets, ammunition, scopes, and so forth.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 17:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Tarminic That's an easy decision for you to make, because someone interested in robbing your house would have made their intentions much more clear by intentionally bypassing the various other means you have of dissuading people from entering your home. But what about situations where the intentions someone trespassing on your property are more ambiguous? Is a suburban homeowner justified in shooting someone who looks like they're sneaking around in the front yard of his home? Turn on the front porch light (first deterrant) Originally by: Tarminic Or someone who looks like he's stealing your mail (after all, the mail is just as much your property as anything else you own)? They make locking mailboxes (First deterrant). you can also go to your post office and attain a P.O. Box (even better) Originally by: Tarminic What is the overall cost to the health care system (additional injuries or death, grief counseling) and the justice system (hearing/trial costs for the property owner in addition to the criminal)? What is the cost in how people view each other? The issue is much larger than the individual property owner vs. the thief. Medical bills - several thousand (granted they get shot) Court fees - several thousand (granted he lives) Making the perp shit their pants - priceless. For everything else, theres mastercard And grief counseling my arse, I just got a free anger management session
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 18:38:00 - [7] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 23/07/2008 18:40:15 Originally by: Tarminic But what about situations where the intentions someone trespassing on your property are more ambiguous? Is a suburban homeowner justified in shooting someone who looks like they're sneaking around in the front yard of his home? Turn on the front porch light (first deterrant) And if he doesn't run away, shoot him? What if what if what if. It's the same old what if game and we can go on forever with this. There are millions of possibilities and millions of outcomes. So theres a man in your yard and porch lights haven't scared him off. He technically hasn't commited a crime yet aside from trespassing. Does the homeowner have a phone or are we going to 'what if' that out. If a porch light is on and he doesn't leave but he hasn't done anything then I'm sure a squad car will make him change his mind. Originally by: Tarminic Or someone who looks like he's stealing your mail (after all, the mail is just as much your property as anything else you own)? They make locking mailboxes (First deterrant). you can also go to your post office and attain a P.O. Box (even better) So what if you don't do that and he's stealing your mail? Shoot him or not? So by not protecting your assets you set yourself up to be a victim. Come on lets try to be realistic. You have a description of the guy, your in a city where police are present. Anymore more what if's you wanna send over or do you want to assume every situation calls for a trigger happy maniac moment.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 19:39:00 - [8] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise Originally by: Tarminic The reason for the what-ifs is that I'm interested in knowing what crimes committed on your property warrant the use of deadly force. I'd say a visible weapon such as a knife or gun. I don't think I'd shoot and ask questions later though. I would attempt to goad the individual to surrender while I have the firearm pointed at him. If he continues to be abrasive and does not surrender or attempts to withdraw a concealed weapon, I will shoot him in either the leg or arm. That's what I'd hope I do anyway. Rage, adrenaline and fear make a powerful and dangerous combination when you feel these feelings while holding a gun. Storming into the room shining the gun mounted flashlight in the perps face while yelling "GET DOWN!" multiple times is great for getting attention. however one thing I should point out is the shooting of the leg or arm. In wepaon training courses you are instructed (like officers of the law) to aim for the torso.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 19:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Tarminic The reason for the what-ifs is that I'm interested in knowing what crimes committed on your property warrant the use of deadly force. Why didn't you just say so? A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept derived from English Common Law, which designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine. Each state differs with respect to the specific instances in which the Castle Doctrine can be invoked, and what degree of retreat or non-deadly resistance (if any) is required before deadly force can be used. In general, one (sometimes more) of a variety of conditions must be met before a person can legally use the Castle Doctrine: An intruder must be making (or have made) an attempt to unlawfully and/or forcibly enter an occupied home, business or car. The intruder must be acting illegally -- e.g. the Castle Doctrine does not give the right to shoot officers of the law acting in the course of their legal duties The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death upon an occupant of the home The occupant(s) of the home must reasonably believe that the intruder intends to commit some other felony, such as arson or burglary The occupant(s) of the home must not have provoked or instigated an intrusion, or provoked or instigated an intruder to threaten or use deadly force The occupant(s) of the home may be required to attempt to exit the house or otherwise retreat (this is called the "Duty to Retreat" and most self-defense statutes referred to as examples of "Castle Doctrine" expressly state that the homeowner has no such duty) In all cases, the occupant(s) of the home must be there legally, must not be fugitives from the law, must not be using the Castle Doctrine to aid or abet another person in being a fugitive from the law, and must not use deadly force upon an officer of the law or an officer of the peace while they are performing or attempting to perform their legal duties. In addition to providing a valid defense in criminal law, many versions of the Castle Doctrine, particularly those with a "Stand-Your-Ground clause", also have a clause which provides immunity from any lawsuit filed on behalf of the assailant for damages/injury resulting from the shootings. Without this clause, it is possible for an assailant to sue for medical bills, property damage, disability, and pain and suffering as a result of the injuries inflicted by the shooter, or for their next-of-kin to sue for wrongful death in the case of a shooting fatality. Even if successfully refuted, the defendant (the homeowner/shooter) must often pay thousands of dollars in legal costs as a result of such lawsuits, and thus without immunity, such civil action could be used for revenge against a shooter acting lawfully. The only exceptions to this civil immunity are generally situations of excessive force, where the shooter fired on a subdued, cooperative, or disabled assailant. A situation meeting this exception generally invalidates the criminal "castle defense" as well. In addition, someone who fires in self-defense is still liable for any damages or injuries to third parties who were not acting criminally at the time of the shooting.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 21:33:00 - [10] Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Originally by: Tarminic I prefer more old-fashioned techniques, to be honest. Large blunt objects or fists are optimal. Hell, even if someone breaks into your home they're walking around in a dimly lit, unfamiliar location. Perfect place for an ambush. Surprise sex? fix'd

Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.23 22:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Arvald Originally by: Tarminic Originally by: Fink Angel In reality, we're all big and clever posturing here on the forums, but if it actually happened to us, I'd like to think people would give their actions some thought at least before blowing anyone away with their firearm of choice. I prefer more old-fashioned techniques, to be honest. Large blunt objects or fists are optimal. Hell, even if someone breaks into your home they're walking around in a dimly lit, unfamiliar location. Perfect place for an ambush. hahaha the mental picture of you leaping from the top of the stairs in your underwear right on top of someone Make sure you add the infamous "NINJA, ATTACK!" quote from tmnt into that mental picture
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.24 04:02:00 - [12] Originally by: Sakura Nihil PS, I am a liberal. Don't paint all of us as tree-huggers, we try not to paint you all as radical religious extremists. The religion thread is a few pages back. Maybe I shouldn't mention that.......
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.24 04:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton with a gun you have 5-29 more shots. Or 74 if you really got the fun stuff
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.24 14:40:00 - [14] Originally by: 50freefly Uh, no. Rubber bullets unless shot very well do nothing but aggravate the intruder, and at best temporarily incapacitate them. NOTHING is as effective at stopping something than making it dead. Actually rubber bullets have killed people on occassion, usually when it's close range, like in a house or something.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 15:03:00 - [15] Originally by: Sudiin S Back on topic.. I don't know what's worse, loosing a laptop and/or some other electronics or the loss of a young life which could have potentially gone good at some point of his life. I mean what did the guy have to fear so much from a kid even if he was a burglar!!?? Ohwell... it's almost pointless to do justice in a country such as the USA. Sweet argument random alt. Say could you tell me where you live, I would like to find your laptop and sell it for crack. I can't be held accountable though for the people who find personal information on your laptop and later bleed your bank account dry leaving you behind on payments and thousands in debt henceforth completely destroying your life for several months but you appear to have no issue with that. Address pls?
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 15:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Sokratesz Why dont we all just shoot each other and be done with it? Whoooaa there, we're working on that still. One thing at a time.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Eternal Error Originally by: Sokratesz Does it make me sound very idealistic when i say that i believe that no-one deserves to die for a petty crime like that? What does this make you think? So if you hear a noise in the middle of the night while you and your family are home and go downstairs to find someone breaking in through the door, you're just going to stop and stand there and ask him his age and whether or not he is armed? Well according to some of these posters you need a whole questionarre. What is your current age? Have you been or are you now currently on drugs? Are you drunk and/or confused about your current location? Are you curretnly weilding a weapon on your person? If yes do you have an intent to inflict bodily harm to the occupants of this residence? Do you have any prior criminal record? Do you intend to burglarize this premises? After reading off the questionnare you may then select the weapon best suited for the case which means you must keep a baseball bat, a can of mace, a tazer, or a firearm with non lethal rounds on a nightstand. However it should be noted that the criminal may or may not give the correct answers and results may vary.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Kids as young as 3 and 4 are being taught to steal by crooks This is true here as well. I used to work for Winco foods back in the day when their new ID store opened. On the grand opening day when employees could bring family there we already had our first catch when the mother of one younger employee handed her child some cheese and had her hide it behind her back in the stroller. We also had several boks in the office that had photo's of all of the shoplifters that we caught including their goods. Usually each page had 6 photo's and I remember one page had an entire family with the youngest being 4. All of them were packing things to haul out of the store. I've also have seen shit like this on tv on shows like 'caught on camera' and whatnot (god bless the court tv channel). Locally lately we've had an increase in juvenille crimes, things like 2 15 year old boys brutallybeating a 9 year old ******ed girl and leaving her to die in a alley, several teens who killed a ranchowners horse and used some tools to remove it's intestines through it's rear (one I wish they would use on the teens), several young teen males gang raping a 10 year girl. And because of these actions of late our court system has been stepping up it's punishment and many of these kids are now being sentenced as adults and I say good for them, let the little bastards rot in prison until they're in their 40's. They wanna be hard then this is a great wake up call for them.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 22:45:00 - [19] Originally by: Sokratesz I wont shoot him, thats for sure. If everyone thought like you people the world would be even less enjoyable than it already is. Way to go. I didn't realize being robbed, mugged, or ***d was enjoyable. Then again like they say about the internet: If you can think of it chances are theres a fetish for it*.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 23:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: Micheal Dietrich Originally by: Sokratesz I wont shoot him, thats for sure. If everyone thought like you people the world would be even less enjoyable than it already is. Way to go. I didn't realize being robbed, mugged, or ***d was enjoyable. Then again like they say about the internet: If you can think of it chances are theres a fetish for it. If everyone thought like you it certainly wont be, no. What the *** is with all the pessimism? How about you stop being afraid of your shadows? Well then I guess it's a good thing that people do think like me. I don't want some guy bending me over while I'm asking 'please sir, may I have another?' Show up to work one day and be like 'woohoo, I just got this shiner last night and a broken jaw not to mention I out a stereo now! Insurance will make it all better!' What the hell kind of sick world do you live in?

Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.25 23:21:00 - [21] Make sure you give me your address please. As long as I'm robbing the other guy who's willing to lay over and play dead I mighta well hit up your hard earned lifestyle as well. I tell you this thing I've been doing my whole life of working hard for my way of living has been all wrong.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.26 15:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Isabel Icahn That Mr. McGuire would feel the need to own firearms Just a FYI firearms aren't just for self defense. I've fired literally thousands of rounds and none of them have ever been fired in self defense.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.27 06:22:00 - [23] Originally by: Sokratesz Regardless how or why he owned them, he apparantly felt the need to fire upon someone he could barely see or knew intentions of. It was not self-defence, he wasnt being threatened in anyway. Stop being afraid of your shadows. A brick and a arm through the window is not being threatened now? Does somebody have to beat you in the face before you feel threatened? Like I asked before what kind of ****ed up world do you live in? Well I already know one part of your world as you live off of daddy and the state. You have no idea what the true value of something is, yaknow, if it get lost or stolen you simply just expect someone to hand another one to you. Once you've spent some time earning something that you worked hard for, that you earned on your own accord, then I will take you seriously. Oh and I thought you were leaving this thread, change your mind? And why did you give me an address to a cat and dog salon? Yeah, I looked. Get out of fantasy land and join the real world. People will walk over you. It's not all roses and prancing unicorns.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.27 06:30:00 - [24] Originally by: Buff Plankchest Translation: I hope you get ****d, maybe then you'll feel different In sokrats case he'd probably ask for seconds. Please sir, may I have another?
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.27 17:53:00 - [25] Edited by: Micheal Dietrich on 27/07/2008 17:55:20 Originally by: Sokratesz He wasnt being hit he wasnt being shot he wasnt even being pointed at by a gun or knife or fist. yet.... Originally by: Sokratesz I know one thing and thats never to take anything for granted. The only thing i was trying to make clear by letting you know i am a student (as are many, many eve players) is that i haven't yet 'earned' anything in my opinion. So, my little bro is a student. In the summer he works full time to pay for his tuition, his books, his car. In his first year his friends partied a lot while he studied hard because he knows what his degree will mean and he understand what it means to earn something. Originally by: Sokratesz And it's too much fun seeing world-oblivious idiots argue. I don't find being called a idiot very enjoyable, guess you failed in your task at life. Kinda like your hypocrisy in not being prejudice to others and yet you quote about the evils of religion, I'm sure those people don't find you very enjoyable either. Guess you only feel the need to makes the lives easier for thieves and brigands. Originally by: Sokratesz The world may not be perfect but who am i not to try and make it as enjoyable as possible, both for me and the people around me? And it has been tried, and failed, because situational awareness and common sense are much more useful than bullets. I repeat my quote above for your hypocrisy in life in only making it enjoying for certain types. At least I'm honest in my intentions. By the way, I like how you changed your quote to hide your feelings after it was pointed out to you, very classy.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.27 18:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Sokratesz Everyone has their little pet peeves and mine is ignorance, And mine is people breaking into my house and robbing me. Originally by: Sokratesz You started out with wishing upon me ** Show me where I said that. I see where somebody made it into a translation. I see where I mentioned where you have no problem laying over to die for intruders but I'm missing the spot where I wish it to happen to you. Originally by:** Sokratesz I have been in situations where violence was prominent and shooting people might have solved it, but i am glad and after reading your replies, mostly proud that i (along with several other bystanders) managed to finish it quietly and without harm done to anyone. I'm in situations all the time too where shooting isn't required including being stabbed once. What you want a cookie or something? Originally by: Sokratesz I find all of this quite amusing, as i have several acquintances living in several different US states (oregon, georgia, california) and they think exactly the same about your replies as i: gun toting idiot. That's good, you get a gold star . For some reason I don't see you being one to run around with a 'gun toting idiot' so of course your friends would agree with you. They're called high school clicks.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.29 14:18:00 - [27] I don't know why the rest of you gun lovers are still argueing with the sissy liberals, we already know that what happen was within the man's right's as a homeowner. All ya'all are doing are just feeding the tears and making them go emo on us.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.29 16:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Eternal Error Threadnought status reached. This is my first ever threadnought, and I was hoping to achieve one when I started the thread. Thank you, gentlemen. You can also achieve this in many other ways but this topic is the easiest. Theres also religion but you have a chance of getting in trouble with the mods. Theres sexual orientation but depending what path you take it may get nuked into oblivion. And one that I personally want to see achieved are the cruelty to bugs rants when people show the bug arena video's.
Micheal Dietrich Caldari Terradyne Networks	Posted - 2008.07.30 15:58:00 - [29] Hmmm, I like that sign..... But that picture is missing the sandbag pillbox with .50 cal.

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